Pleasure and Pain

November 24, 1985

Available in the Audio Library.
What's the key? Don't get too extreme.

Corky: What I wanted to talk about a little bit today is a thing that everybody goes through and they probably don't understand why. I sort of wanted to touch on it so they could understand why. When you go through this change process, everybody is going through life looking to feel good and be happy. That's sort of what life is about. When you are growing up and everything, nobody wants to feel bad or unhappy. Everybody wants to feel happy and good, don't they? There's not many people that want to feel bad and not happy, is there? And so when they go along and all of a sudden they feel bad, or they don't feel good and not happy, there's an unsettling that takes place inside of them and they wonder why this is all taking place. And it's the swing of the pendulum, it's a natural law, everything has its balance in creation because of the total-ness and the nothingness, when they come into bond, it always has its balance.

And so the middle path is usually the easiest to take, to the extent that if you feel a lot of good, you're going to automatically have to feel a lot of bad to know what good is. Because they're the opposite of each other. So if you're dipping into a lot of pleasure, you're automatically going to feel bad because of it. And usually what happens when people come around here for a period of time, they've gone through a normal life and they've gone through the swings of feeling good and feeling bad, but the majority of their life they've had this looking to tomorrow for a good feeling or a high or a happiness, that they're going to reach this goal, and when they get to this goal they're going to be happy forever after. Isn't that sort of how it goes? This goal of being happy for ever after? But what happens is when you sort of get awakened, and as the awakening process comes on you, you begin to realize there's a balance. And it starts inside of you. There is a balance between the happiness and the unhappiness. And the happier you are the more unhappy you get. The more good feelings you have, the more bad feelings you have, and so, after a period of time, you try to find a balance point right in the center so that you don't take these swings, because you don't enjoy the bad feelings and after a while you don't enjoy the good ones because they become part of the bad, and you realize, because of awakened consciousness, that they are one and the same thing.

It's like a thermometer. And you've been in the warm stage and you think this is good, but you haven't remembered the cold stage. And all of a sudden you get conscious and you realize that they are both of the same thing. And so when you realize that they're both of the same thing, subconsciously it moves you automatically towards the center path and you begin to avoid some of these things that cause these real highs, which automatically you'll come back to a real low.

And so when you start to realize this inside, all of a sudden depression comes up inside of you and you wonder where in the world did this depression come from? How come this depression is so intense? Why do I feel so bummed out? Nothing is worth living for and no life existence is relevant. And that depression is a result of a consciousness. As you break through into a new consciousness, you've been locked into this thing for however many years old you are, 40 or 20 or 30 or 60 or whatever, this thing tells you that you've got to go out and find wealth and happiness and love and live happily ever after. And you've been doing that all of your life. And all of a sudden you get into a consciousness of realization that says that's not really the story of nature. There isn't such a thing, it's impossible to do that because you cannot know one without the other. It's impossible to know good without the bad. It's impossible to feel good without feeling bad because you have to compare the two, they're on the scale together. And so you start trying to avoid the extremes and staying in the middle path. And as you break into this new consciousness all that load you've been carrying for all those years of trying to arrive at nirvana, of this place that says to you, "Oh I'm going to reach this goal of wealth, fame, love, joy and happiness forever, [sings] Forever, and ever, Hallelujah!", or something like that, you know how it goes? And it's impossible, there's no such thing. It's not that way, nature's not that way. It's a balance between the two. And so for you to feel this real high, you're going to have get this real low on the other end. And so you guys have been carrying this thing for however old you are. How old are you Al?

Al G: 37.

Corky: Thirty seven years. For about the last 30 years you've been going for nirvana right? When I get rich and wealthy and famous and all these things I'll be happy forever after. Isn't that sort of the story? Doesn't it go something like that?

Al G: Maybe. To a degree.

Corky: To a degree of that? Ok... And so as soon as you break through into this new consciousness, all of a sudden you take on a new awareness that is devastating to the old consciousness and it causes a depression to come about because your bubble has been popped. Your ignorance has gone away. You move out of ignorance into an awakened awareness. And maybe the reality or truth of it is sometimes hard to bare. It's like the reality or the truth that everybody dies. Most people go through life saying everybody else dies but me. I never die. I never get old. I'm going to stay young forever. That's why I'm going to the spa, that's why I'm having this face lift or cheek tuck or whatever they call them. This is why I'm doing this, this is why I'm getting these new clothes, I'm going to be young forever. All the guys on the block die except for me. Isn't that sort of the story that everybody thinks? Everybody goes through life believing that. Like Frank there, he thinks he's going to live forever.

Frank: Not really.

Corky: He's pushing this age limit up there. First it starts out at 60, then it goes up to 70, now he's got it up to 80 something. He may even get it up into the 90's one of these days. He thinks he's going to live forever. And nobody and nothing lives forever. Everything goes in cycles, that's the nature of the cosmos. That's what it is, it's a cycle. But everything does actually live forever. It's just not in the way that you believe it will live forever, that you live forever in this body, because that is the smallness of your reality. And so as you break through this bubble that you've been in, this isolation of ignorance, and break into an awakened consciousness, it brings about a depression because you've broken this bubble of ignorance and it brings you into a reality that sometimes is a little bit difficult to deal with because you've been telling yourself a fairytale all this time. And so you've got to be able to deal with the higher laws. Everybody says give me the power. Give me the enlightenment, give me the consciousness, but when you start giving it to them they get all bummed out with it. They say, "Well that's not what I wanted, I wanted the fairytale. I wanted to be told that I would be happy forever and ever hallelujah." And never any sadness. But it's impossible to know happiness without knowing sadness because they are opposite of each other. They are on the same scale. It's sort of like Jim, if it were 70 degrees all the time, from the day you were born until right now, would you know what hot or cold was about? You wouldn't, would you? Somebody could talk about it, couldn't they? And they'd say oh it's hot today, it's 70 degrees. And somebody could say to them, oh, it's cold today, its 70 degrees. But it wouldn't have any relevance. It would be an illusion. It would be this bubble of ignorance. And then all of a sudden you break through and you see the difference between 120 degrees and 120 below. There is a dramatic difference, isn't there? But they are on the same scale of heat, or temperature. And this exact same thing takes place in happiness or sadness in existence. But when the bubble of ignorance is broken, sometimes it is devastating and it brings on a depression, to the extent that you didn't really want to know the truth, what you wanted was a lie. You wanted to be told that you were going to go into a bliss where things dance for you all the time and wait on you and hand you things, and you never have any, um, it's an effortless existence. This bliss that they speak of is a nothingness, where nothing takes place. It's just a pure silence. Because that's the avoidance of the extremes. Of the happiness and the sadness. It's the silence, the bliss is the center path where you observe both sides for what it is rather than being caught by it and drug into it.

Jim Kirkwood came in here one day and we were talking and he says to me, "You guys are bad." And I said, "Why are we bad?" And he says, "Because you guys are not out there in life taking on this challenge for Elohim." And I said, "Well we sort of would like to watch you do it instead of us do it." I said, "One time I played football and that's where you get all the bruises, out there on the football field, and it's just as much fun for me sitting in the stand and watching the game and seeing what goes on with the game down there on the field rather than taking the bruises." And he says, "Well life isn't worth living unless your down there on the football field playing the game and taking the bruises." And I said, "Well that may be for you, but it's not for me." I'd rather be on the center path watching it rather than being subjected to the pain of the high and the low. And as it says in Patanjali's sutras, that the conscious one, or the enlightened one, or the awakened one becomes so sensitive to either the highs or the lows, it's like dragging a thread across your eye. That's the description of it in there. You know, you become so sensitive to the things that happen in there that that's how it is.

So whenever there is a high around, you want to get away from the high, whenever there's a low around you want to get away from it, you want to stay right in the center and sort of watch everybody brutalize themselves out there. And the highs become painful just as the lows become painful, it all becomes painful to the extent that your new consciousness allows you to see it for what it really is rather than what it isn't. It's sort of like before you got this new consciousness you were like a dog in a frenzy, in a fight. You were this wild animal, and you're pumped up, and biting each other and ripping legs off and ears and arms, and after the fight is over you start to feel the pain, but during the fight, the frenzy of it and the excitement of it was a joy. It's like war ya know. They go into war and stuff and they blow each other apart and it's this adrenaline and this excitement and this viciousness and stuff and this elation, a real high, and that's what everybody's doing in life is ripping each other's ears off and legs off, and in this dog fight of life, and after the dog fight is over you look down and your leg is gone and your ear is missing and you discover the pain of it and the blood is pumping out of the stub where it used to be. And then the depression comes and the depths of despair and the dying of it. And if you break through the bubble you come off of the battlefield of life, you get out of your tank, your facade, in your little pink body, and you walk over to the playground and we stand in the playground where it's safe and you watch the battlefield of life where everybody else is doing a job on themselves. And you still see it and you participate in it, but vicariously. Al, you wanted to say something?

Al G: No.

Corky: Did you want to ask something?

Al G: No, I'm too confused.

Corky: Your confused right now?

Al G: Yeah.

Corky: Because you thought you were going to be happy?

Al G: No, I'm just too confused.

Corky: What does that mean?

Al G: I just don't understand the things that happened day in and day out. That I get involved in and they just don't make sense and they literally uh... You know, there is a why... I guess in the past two months at work this one particular person has been pushing my buttons, I mean going out of the way to try and push my buttons.

Corky: Trying to get you out on the battlefield of life?

Al G: Yeah. And I'm trying to stay off. And I'm catching it every time. This person is just looking for, luring me into it. With all the aces they have up their sleeve and all the ones that they can go buy and obtain. And I'm doing the best I can to... and to this point I have not gotten involved in the conflict.

Corky: That's described as a celestial nymph. It can take on several different forms, it can take on, if you're a woman, it could take on a man that could sexually lure you off, if it were a man or a woman in a relationship. It can take on a person that could come and try to drag you off to a battle of right and wrong.

Al G: Yeah, or stepping on... this situation it is a "I'm doing their job" or "they're doing my job" or some bullshit like that. It has to do with the work and so anyway it has this really really weird... and I see it's taking place, and I know it's taking place and so I'm saying, well it's happening, and while I'm observing it I'm saying this person is just waiting for me to counter on what they are doing to me and I'm not going to give them that satisfaction.

Corky: Ok, James wants to add something here and then you can go on.

James: Yeah, I've been having, about the last 3 or 4 weeks I've been having these big blotches of real intense depression and I went to lunch yesterday and went to Smiths to get some Egg Nog and I was just really... and I was walking down the aisle and there was this lady in back of me and I look and see that she's going to get in front of me and she's going to get in my way and stand in front of the Egg Nog for an hour and I'm not going to be able to get it and she goes voom and stands there looking at everything. I say, "They're after me, you know." So I just took a lap around the store and came back and she was gone.

Corky: Yeah, you were trying to be set up. And that's what it is, it's a group of tulitarily deities [mispronounces "tutelary"].

Al G: Tulitarily? What does that mean?

Corky: It means that they are involved in doing that to you.

Al G: For what purpose?

Corky: They're the filter preventing you from getting on the other side. Keeping you locked on this side. It's sort of like preventing you from graduating from school. It's sort of like the group of snobs at school that all have their masters degree in English. Carnie went through this, remember? And there was a group of people that didn't want you there, right? And they didn't want you to have that same certificate that they had, right? That happens in the world too. There's a group of people at work that don't want you to have that same level of credential as they have. It's the level above you and management that says, "Al, you're here, and we're up here. And you're going to have to cut em off, saw em all, and put em back together and wrap em around to come up to this level." Know what I'm talking about? I mean you're going to have to perform miracles in order to move up to that level. Ok, see what I'm saying? And it's in society that does that too.

And so, the tuletary deities-when you start to break through this awakening consciousness-set you up, like Jim was talking about, and you'll run into all kinds of circumstances where you'll have a real mad on. And... Yeah Jim?

Jim: Well, most of the time I would say it's a deity working through that person and the person has no idea.

Corky: Yeah, exactly, they don't even know what's going on.

Al G: That's the part that freaks me out.

Woman's voice: Tutelary.

Corky: Tutelary is what it is. Teaching, right? It's a teaching. It means teaching deity is what it is.

Al G: See this is the thing that really blows my mind, ok? It's like, let me give you a little example ok? I went and got my hair cut yesterday. And I started going to this barber about 6 or 8 months ago. Because he's close to the house and stuff. So I went in there and saw the people coming out and said, "Oh, this guy seems to know how to cut hair." He gives me the worst haircuts, ok? So yesterday I went and I said I'm not going to go there, ok? I'm not going to go there because something goes wrong every time I get in the chair, for everybody else it goes ok, but for me it goes wrong. So I'm going to drive clear across town, and there is this one barber up by the university, for about $2.50 he's cut my hair pretty decently. So I said God, but it's way the hell over there and the roads are bad, it's going to take all day to do that, it's crazy, just go here, it makes more sense. So I go. So I sit down, I got 4 guys in front of me. So I watch, the guy cuts their hair, he combs their hair, he does a nice job on them, doesn't butcher them. And they get up, Thank you Mr. barber, and they leave. And the next guy, and next guy, and next guy. And I get up there in the chair, and I never said anything before and he's butchered me. I've gotten into the chair and just made brief little comments like, "Can you do this" or "do that?" He says yeah, no problem. So this time I says well, I'm going to comment again real nicely and give him some suggestion. And he gets all done. Now, he cut 4 peoples hair prior to when I got there and I saw it all done. And he combed all of their hair. So, he butchers my head and then he hands me the comb. And I go, why does he comb everybody else's hair but for me he hands me the comb?! And turns me around, because I haven't seen what he's done to this point, so he turns me around and I look in the mirror and I'm thinking, "You son of a bitch, you did it to me again!" And he handed me the comb! Now, I can't figure this out, why it all takes place and why I have to be butchered and everything and I walked out of there and pay him and I tell him oh, this looks great, and I say it every time because if I so much as say, "You son of a bitch I want my fucking money back," I have a feeling that would just be worse. You know, but I gotta wear a hat every time I leave the place because I can't comb my hear. It just does whatever it wants to do because he ruins it, see? And I think, "This is really, really fucking great." And then I started thinking, well maybe I'm just caught up in my hair too much and pay attention to myself too much.

Corky: Maybe you are.

Al G: Maybe I should just shave it all off and wear a hat.

Corky: Yeah, ok, so... could you look at this for just a second? Do you think it is possible there is such a thing as tutelary deities?

Al G: At this point anything is possible, you know what I'm saying?

Corky: Ok. And so the story that Jim is talking about, when he goes to the market he can feel one crawling on him...

Al G: I can tell it's going to happen.

Corky: You can tell what's going to happen, right?

Al G: I knew it was going to happen. And you know what else I knew? I knew that if I drove clear across town it would happen over there too! So I said what difference does it make, I may as well save the gas and get butchered here!

Corky: Exactly. And so do you think that you're going through some kind of lesson?

Al G: But I don't know what it is! It may be possible.

Corky: Ok, have you ever gone through a lesson in the past and come out on the other side and then seen what it is?

Al G: Yes. But this one I cannot relate to.

Corky: Ok. They all start out like that. When you go into them, they're maddening. Remember how mad you were over the fence? And you couldn't see anything? Remember how mad you got, you could have killed for it couldn't you? And when you got out the other side of it, you got what it was all about?

Al G: Yeah.

Corky: Well this is the same thing. What I'm trying to explain to everybody is that the depression comes on because of... you've got this illusion built up in your head about happiness, [sings] "Forever, and ever, hallelujah..." You know? And you get all these money and riches and fame and joy and love and happiness, you're going to be happy forever, but you still can't know what happiness is until you compare it to sadness. They are on the same thermometer. They are the same thing. And so your bubble is getting popped because you're going through a learning experience, and when you get into doing this meditation, and you're coming here, the tutelary deities will pick on you. They are called the Netters. And I told that from the very beginning to everybody, that the netters assist you along and work with you...

Al G: That's helping me out huh?

Corky: Everybody says they're on a path to enlightenment or awakened awareness or self realization. Self realization is getting to know yourself, your real self inside, ok? And if you really are on that path, sometimes it's not comfortable because you see things, or you go through things, popping these bubbles of illusions, and you come into reality, and you didn't bargain for reality, you bargained for a fairy tale, you bargained for "forever, forever, happy, forever," and there's no such thing. And so the bubble is popped, and you come into this awareness, and it's depressing because the lie has been exposed. Your own lie, your own creation's lie. And you see everything how it really is rather than the illusion of it. And when you first came here, you probably came here with the idea you were driving all those twelve hours one direction to Summum for "happiness, forever and ever." You put in all the leg work to get here so you could be in nirvana and happy forever, right?

Al G: Well initially it was to discover something.

Corky: Yeah, and you didn't want to discover something that was going to hurt you, you wanted to discover something that was going to make you happy right?

Al G: Hopefully.

Corky: Yeah, but what happens is you discover reality and there is no happiness or unhappiness to it. Its right down the center line, it's a purity of the nirvana or the bliss consciousness, right down the center, and you see the extremes on the side, but you're in a pure consciousness of what they really are, and you don't necessarily get drawn over there. And you go through the teachings of the tutelary deities that grab Jim at the store or grab you at work or wherever you happen to be, and as you do the meditation they start working with you to break you loose of the old. You went through some intense ones, didn't you Terry?

Terry: Uh huh.

Corky: Still maybe are going through some, but this last year you went through an immense one, didn't you? That was a killer, wasn't it?

Terry: Pretty close.

Al G: So what's the key though?

Corky: What's the key? Don't get too extreme. Don't get so... Jim's got a comment, Jim?

Jim: Well, after a while it doesn't last as long, and the second it starts coming on, you get conscious.

Corky: Of what it is, of what's happening. You know they're setting you up for something. You're setting yourself up for something. It's like Janie went and set herself up for something, and the tutelary deities have been getting her ever since she got here. You set yourself up for happiness forever when you came here, didn't you?

Janie: Yeah.

Corky: And as you popped each little bubble as you went along, did you get a clearer vision of what was really going on?

Janie: Yeah, I did.

Corky: Would you like to still be in the state of ignorance?

Janie: No.

Corky: Because sometimes they say ignorance is bliss, you know? You really don't know what's going on. It's like someone lays you down on a hospital bed and shoots you up with a ton of drugs or something like that, and you're out of it and you lay there and nothing happens. You just lay there. Its um, ignorance and bliss at the same time because your mind can't function, you can't feel anything, you just lay there. And as you get clearer and clearer and conscious and more conscious and more conscious it gets, um, sometimes you get real sensitive to the extremes and you try to avoid getting drawn off to the extreme mad over here or extreme happy over here, and you just try to stay in the center and say, "No, I don't want to touch that, don't want to touch that, I'm just going to stay right here, I'm going to avoid it and I'm going to look at it." And you understand after a period of time why you don't want to get involved in it. And then you get a consciousness of what it really is, and then you have to laugh at it. It's a big joke after you get a consciousness of... :[to Al G.] the fence is a joke now when you look at it?

Al G: Uh huh.

Corky: But how mad were you about it at one time?

Al G: Pretty mad.

Corky: Mad enough to almost kill?

Al G: Pretty close, yeah.

Corky: And you got all frustrated and confused and when you came out the other side you saw it for what it was, and it got ok, and you just sort of have to laugh at the story. Think of all the time you wasted on that fence, it's sort of funny isn't it?

Al G: Well, yeah.

Corky: It's sort of corny isn't it? Makes you laugh doesn't it? Can't you see you running around the yard digging holes real fast, sticking poles in and stuff like this, and this guy crashing into them? It's sort of like a cartoon on TV isn't it? Couldn't you see a roadrunner cartoon like that, and you were the road runner? And the neighbor is the coyote, you know, and you're putting the poles in and he's coyote-ing all over the poles and your putting them in and he's trying to miss them and its sort of like a cartoon? That's the same thing with this haircut stuff you're going through right now. It's a cartoon, of life. Yeah Janie?

Janie: Frank and I were talking last night, and it's like, after a while you begin to see that everything you're looking at is an illusion, and really your changing from moment to moment, and you're in a different space from moment to moment so much that it's ridiculous to think that you know what's going to happen tomorrow. It's not that you decide to live in the present, it's the only space you can be anyway.

Corky: It's a safer spot.

Janie: It's the only place you can be anyway. It's an illusion that you can be secure any other way.

Corky: Everybody bargained for what they are really getting when they came here, didn't they? That what they said was they want this consciousness, but as they go through it they say, "Maybe I don't really want that because that's not what I thought I wanted," but that's what they are really getting, is what they said they wanted, was this enlarged consciousness. What do you think Al?

Al G: Well, I was just... it just seems, you know, like it only happened to me, you know? Everybody goes through the same process and I'm not saying it only happens to me, but with me it seems like very honestly, that if it was one thing at a time it would be a lot easier to tolerate instead of many things at the same time. You know this little process, ok, like my stomach? See, that's another thing.

Corky: Well no one said it happens slow around here did we? I said it's the place it happens the fastest.

Al G: Yeah, but it's happening all at the same time.

Corky: So. It's sort of like you saying you're having a detonation rather than an ignition. You're like a rocket taking off. An ignition it burns slowly and lifts it off the planet.

Al G: But a detonation is a total explosion.

Corky: Yeah, exactly. You detonated you off the planet, right? That's what it is, a detonation rather than an ignition. Yes?

Janie: I know what Al's talking about cause it seems like every time I get in the chair and go through something, I'm changing jobs, I'm in my period, and I'm going through another thing at the same time. You don't get it one thing at a time, it all happens in bunches.

Corky: Yeah, it's great isn't it? I mean it's better that way, it gets it over quick.

Al G: Oh god, yeah, you got it...

Corky: I mean, how would you like to lay on the operating table for months?

Al G: I have been lately.

Corky: No, I mean for months just taking off a little tumor or something like that? When you could just lay on there, slash it off, patch you up and throw you out the door. It's just, I can't help that you've got all these tumors.

Al G: I'm not blaming anybody.

Corky: So, I wanted to explain that to everybody, so they could get an idea of why the depression comes and where it's coming from. It's going from one state to another, destroying an illusion, and moving into a reality of something you didn't expect. And when you destroy an illusion, it's sort of like saying, "Tomorrow I'm going to be a millionaire." And tomorrow arrives, and you're not, but you had your whole existence banking on it. This is what cause and effect does, is it puts you into a consciousness of cause and effect, and you see the ladder, or chain of events taking place.

Al G: You feel them too!

Corky: Yeah, you feel them too.

Al G: I mean, all the back ache, the neck ache, I'm going to a chiropractor, you're missing work, this lady at work pushing my buttons, got another guy at work pushing my buttons, and I got an operation and all these things all happen at the same time, you know, and I go, this is just...

Corky: Fun.

Al G: I'm losing my ability to not get mad at anybody anymore. You know. And that level is just getting, that layer is just getting thin.

Corky: Oh, you feel like you're going to get mad and pop.

Al G: Yeah. I feel like the ability to do that is just getting thinner. Rather than just having the reserve and...

Corky: Well this is what the tutelary deities do is make a deity out of you.

Al G: Yeah, but if you get mad, then what?

Corky: Then you start over.

Al G: Yeah, but that doesn't accomplish anything.

Corky: Right. It's just sort of like losing a couple of rungs on the ladder. The Egyptians talk about you climb a ladder to this consciousness. At BYU they tell it that you climb a ladder to go to heaven, but it is climbing consciousness. And it's moving to become a consciousness of a deity, ok? It's just like losing some steps, you have to climb back up to where you just went through.

Al G: So it's just more shit shoveled back into your hole?

Corky: Right, exactly, so you just have to keep it together and go for it.

Al G: Grin and bare it. But remain neutral during the process.

Corky: Right. And it's only natural that if you're going to feel elation, you're going to feel depression. It's a natural process. It's on the same thermometer. Like we talked earlier, if it were 70 degrees all the time, and we asked you if it were hot, you might say it's hot, and if I asked you, you might say it's cold, but say it's 70 all the time from the time we were born, nobody would really know if it was hot or cold, it would just be their interpretation of the illusion of it. Until the temperature spreads out, until it gets to be 120 or 120 below, and you experience those things, you don't know the difference between hot and cold. And so to know you're hot, you have to know cold.

Chris: Then what is the bliss?

Corky: It's the center line.

Chris: And that is... it's not pleasure, but it is a deep contentment, isn't it?

Corky: It's contentment because you're not in the pleasure or the pain, because you discover that the pleasure is just as painful as the pain, and they are the same thing. It's temperature. And your interpreting them because of your illusion and your ignorance that one is better than the other, and all they are is different from each other in extremes of the same thing. It's sort of like love and hate. They're extremes of the same thing. Like Janie's been in love with Frank one minute, and 10 minutes later she's hating him. Right? And they are extremes of the same thing, and all you're doing is going up and down on the extreme same thing, and all of a sudden she says, "Why in the world am I doing this? I'm walking up and down this ladder, and Frank's walking around this ladder, and I'm crawling up and down his ladder in life, going nowhere, going up and down the ladder of love and hate." And Frank's walking around in a circle watching you go up and down this ladder. Why don't I want to get on with life and get off this ladder and go someplace? And that's the center line. Getting off of it. Out of the illusions. Not getting caught up in all the thermometers.

Ok, let's take a break.